Whirlpool

That is the question...

I believe that this thread would be of interest to answer that!

forum-replies-archive.cfm/479484.html

Just found this site and wish we had seen it prior to investing in the program. We seem to be in the same state as most of the other users and after over a year of too ing and fro ing are still yet to go live. Why was the other thread closed down????

Not sure why the other Thread was closed down. I too was a a little disappointed that some of the postings had been removed.

Will anti2clix be looking at maybe replacing the product or are you going to try and see the implementation through?

We were using MYOB and were relatively happy with that but our business just seemed to have outgrown it. We aren't going to change from that just yet

I am new to this forum, and have major issues with my 2Clix system. I didn't realise the other thread was closed down.
I have major problems with the system, which 2Clix has known about since they installed the system. Some of which their own technical people/trainers didn't know about or realise. They haven't fixed anything of importance.
As I am not going to throw more money away and pay the next licence fee, they are about to shut me down. I just found a copy of the licence hidden in the 2Clix software. How many of you & others have actually ever seen the full licence? Is it legal? It says that every page has to be signed, but if not, they take it as being signed. If so, why would they bother showing it to people? I don't know of any other software company that shuts you down. If you don't pay, then there is no support, upgrades etc. Can they legally block you from accesing your own info? What about reports etc needed for tax purposes?
Has anyone discussed legal action, a class action, the Office of Fair Trading, speaking to A Curent Affairs?

I have been looking at purchasing 2clix and came across this forum. I have spoken to a 2clix sales rep who said that if the licence fee is discontinued the software shuts down all except for one user licence, is this correct? I presume this is so that you can access the data. Maybe as an incumbent licence holder you could check it out and let me know if that is correct.

From personal experience, we were completely locked out of the software AND our data, no single user perpetual license/read only license at all. Their stance may have changed on this since we threw the software out in favour of another package, however we still cannot access our old 2Clix data.

All other sites who have not renewed their maintenance contracts have been completely locked out of 2Clix. Not able to access their data in any way or even to print reports.

I've read both this thread and the other, now closed, thread. I've also talked to a number of other software vendors who tell me that they have heard similar problems from people who have become their customers (and some who haven't).

Seems to me there are breaches of the Trade Practices Act in the way 2clix has dealt with customers. Any litigation would be expensive, and the most cost effective way for affected parties may be a class action against 2clix.

Would anyone like to explore this?

To Everybody,

Once again I am offering my professional help and assistance as the Support Manager for 2Clix.

If you have any drama's please do not hesitate to contact me and I will do everything within my power to assist you, you can find my contact details at the bottom of this reply.

With regards to being locked out of your data:

If you have stopped using the 2Clix software and still wish to access your data this can be achieved very easily and I am happy to help you in this area.

Kindest Regards,

Simon Metcher
2Clix Support Manager

(07) 5575 8588
simon.metcher@2clix.com.au

A company I worked for a few years ago looked at implementing 2Clix. From our personal experience it seemed to have a lot of issues which is why we didn't end up implementing it.

For anyone who has been locked out of their data. It is fairly easy to access.

Duke, my understanding is that 2Clix use a service between their their program and MYSQL and it is not possible to access the data using MYSQL tools. If you have some ideas then I'm sure there are a few on this forum that would like to hear them.

avenger2000 writes...

Duke, my understanding is that 2Clix use a service between their their program and MYSQL and it is not possible to access the data using MYSQL tools. If you have some ideas then I'm sure there are a few on this forum that would like to hear them.

I have seen access to the data in the MySQL database using MySQL Front ( now known as Heidi SQL www.heidisql.com ).

So yes, it can be done and it was easy.

Lets see how long my thread takes to be removed. I don't see any reason why my threads are removed other than a moderator with nothing better to do.

I work near 2clix and know several of their customers, not one of them is happy and in fact a few of them are currently reviewing their systems to replace them, if anyone in this forum wants to get in touch with them, please email me and I can pass on contact details.

Hi Duke,

Not sure how your guys got it working, but the guys I know have had no success. Thye tried Heidi after you post. Does it require any special user name and password?

2Clix or Not 2Clix?

"Not 2Clix", because the customer service falls well short of being helpfull. Our experience has shown that they can't keep up with their existing clients. Please don't sign up with them as we'll have even less chance of being helped if they get another client. I'm not sure they can fix our problems anyway. It has been a very expensive mistake.

avenger2000 writes...

Seems to me there are breaches of the Trade Practices Act in the way 2clix has dealt with customers. Any litigation would be expensive, and the most cost effective way for affected parties may be a class action against 2clix.

Would anyone like to explore this?

Sure would! Whats the best way to pull us all togeather?

I saw a brochure for them a couple of years ago. We were looking for a small enterprise system but to do with charity not manufacturing so never considered them.

can you tell me how you get heidi to open up mysql

duke writes...

I have seen access to the data in the MySQL database using MySQL Front ( now known as Heidi SQL www.heidisql.com ).

So yes, it can be done and it was easy.

Was this with an active server license for 2Clix running? Or was it after it had expired?

I tried a couple of different front ends for MySQL but couldn't get anywhere after the 2Clix server license had expired.

well people, we are about to embark on a new round of software discussions, as I was shortly informed that 2Clix Full version 5.0 "The Messiah" is available and it’s been released to consumers’ as we speak.... go forth and conquer

I would not go within a cooee of 2Clix Software - it has been a huge mistake by our company and we made the decision to throw the software out before we went live. I would suggest to anyone considering 2Clix as a package to think, then think again, and before a decision is made try and find one HAPPY site. Professionalism is not a word that is in their vocab - and to rub salt into the wounds, eighteen months after throwing the software out we were contacted by a rep of 2Clix trying to sell us the product!

Dear Everybody,

I cannot emphasise enough my willingness and desire to assist in any way, shape or form that I can. Whether you are a current user of 2Clix experiencing problems or no longer using the software please make contact with me, or at least send me a whim with your details so that I can contact you.

Our support team is here to help and resolve any issues that you may come across.

You can contact myself or our support team on the following details:

Phone: 07 55758 588
E-mail: support@2clix.com.au

My E-mail: simon.metcher@2clix.com.au

I hope to hear from you soon.

Kindest Regards,

Simon Metcher
2Clix Support Manager

Wow!

Have been gone for a while, but I see that the 2clix is still the flavour of the month.....year.....

and to rub salt into the wounds, eighteen months after throwing the software out we were contacted by a rep of 2Clix trying to sell us the product!

Isn't that strange, I got the same call. They have more front than Myers!

I'm all for class action. If anyone has started anything or intending to....You can add me to your list. I know of others that would be very interested.

Isn't that funny - when we were actually paying money to 2Clix - there didn't seem to be any help available - time 2Clix started Walking their Talk rather than just talking it. And if they were so sincere - why wasn't our money refunded when they couldn't provide the goods they promised!

Ditto....Two years after the 2clix software was sold to us, more than half the features being advertised on their brochure and promoted at all the exhibitions are still not active/available. We were mislead, as many others have fallen pray.

We finally had one of their staff confess that the 2clix software was not suitable for our application and that it should never have been sold to us, it was not even installed.....but did they refund our money - NO

I went to a company today to discuss some issues with them and while there they brought up with me their exasperations with their payroll/financials package, 2clix. I'd not heard of it previously. However, they were not sparing with their criticism. I was so intrigued that I googled the software to find this, and other, topic in Whirlpool among the top links.

Like others have experienced, they had their license inadvertantly lapse and were completely locked out of the software. They renewed very quickly (which is perhaps 2clix's goal) but it left a bitter taste in their mouth and certainly added to the lack of positive feeling towards 2clix.

Other things they complained about was that last year apparently 2clix couldn't produce electronic payment summaries to the ATO, and additionally it would only report just one taxable deduction on the payment summary. If an employee had multiple taxable deductions, only the first would show on the payment summary despite the payroll module happily permitting more than one to be entered. They also said the balance sheet won't balance and that many other frustrations occur on a daily basis. The guy managing their systems told me the software often crashes and that updates and patches are churned out at alarming frequency which suggests to me very poor release management. The company said they'd been made to use beta versions as well, just to get certain bug fixes.

Would love to join you guys in a class action...how do we go about this

I am new to this forum.I am so glad to hear that i am not the only one living this nightmare.We installed 2 clix about a year ago and have regretted since .Its always our fault..training,system,hardware,ca­ bles,beta version,not happening on our system, wait for update,etc,etc never ends.Simon's a great guy ,but no solutions.Just about ready to throw out now.

Our company has also been a victim of 2clix misrepresentions. The sales pitch to everything you ask is "yes our software can do that".After you have purchased the software, the excuse is " our software can do that, but not the way you want it". It seems that everthing can be fixed, you will just have to wait. We werent prepared to wait and were quickly advised of there no refund policy. It seems 2clix is more interested in the quick bucks and not their reputation as many customers are clearly unhappy. With this attitude in my opinion 2clix will not be around for long. More to come......

i would be interested in a class action

I love this thread. I can't wait for the links to legal/law web sites! ;-)

luka11 writes...

i would be interested in a class action

Instigating legal proceedings against 2Clix isn't really going to solve your problems. The most likely outcome of a successful class action would be the company in question going into administration, which would not benefit anyone.

I work as a software developer for an Australian ERP manufacturer. We (like all vendors) have the occasional unhappy customer - but any complaints we've ever had we've been able to resolve through communication with customer as to what their problem is, and delivering a solution - which sometimes is a software fix, and sometimes is as simple as a configuration change or even educating the customer how to use the software as intended.

Now, 2Clix has repeatedly offered a channel of communication to the posters here who are unhappy customers to have their problems heard. I'd like to know how many of the vocal posters here have actually explored that option.

Do try to worth with the vendor - you'll find it a lot more productive than threats of litigation.

Silvia Saint writes...

Do try to worth with the vendor - you'll find it a lot more productive than threats of litigation.
It is all very well to offer the option of working with the vendor. However there are times when this is not an option. We tried unsuccessfully for over six months to sort out issues - features we were initially promised with the software and which did not eventuate - 2Clix response was - well if you want this or that feature you can have it - but it will cost additional dollars (thousands).
This product not only cost us tens of thousands of dollars - but wasted time from Managing Director level to office staff.

I believe 2Clix as a company are entirely unethical! I hope this site prevents others from being sucked in by 2Clix misrepresentations of their product.

Has anyone actually taken the new version 5 as yet and if so what was the experience. Is it the panacea to all of the old problems

Silvia Saint writes...

Do try to worth with the vendor - you'll find it a lot more productive than threats of litigation.

I spent much time of a period of 12 months working with 2Clix for a customer to try to get their system into a workable state. I can't begin to describe the number of discussions, patches etc tried, and at every stage they blamed everything except their application. These WP threads make me laugh, because their tech support always claimed that my customer was the only one who had problems, and the old "it works for all our other customers" line always came out.
My customer even caved and bought one of their (associated D&M Computing) junky home-made servers to run the app, and it was still a dog.

Speaking of licenses, what is 2Clix's MySQL license? Have they purchased an OEM license or some such? Perhaps Simon Metcher can advise?

Version 5 Yes,we were talked into this and have past 2 months...same *&+%* all over again ...Just a different look ...(new icons) ,speed drastically reduced,click and yawn and yawn some more,Irritated why some good features of past version were removed...all up ....we are worse off...

SAP and ACCPAC have been going for over 25 years each, 2Clix only for 9 years. You would expect SAP and ACCPAC to be exceptional products due to the years in selling this and refining their program.
One would hope that in 10 years that 2Clix would be at a similar level (okay waiting for a comment on this! :>). I think the program has huge potential, they just need to do things better and be more professional. HelpDesk has improved but still has a long way to go. Modification requests, this area also needs alot of improving. Improvements with the CRM.

We have had our issues but we always spoke to 2Clix about them, maybe at first they would say it was the way you were doing it but after a little while when they realised that we knew what we were talking about, this line would not come up. Some times it was self inflicted but not all the time.
We are still trying to run live with this program, it has been 2 years since it was installed and it has not been easy. Amount of money and labour - Priceless, but we are still trying, at the final stage of this hopefully it will work out.
Or am I living on another planet!!

Regarding speed side, we are on Version 5 and speed is fine, could be a little quicker but still fairly good.
Speed of a program can be affected by other things like, the way you set up your LAN, EG having the correct topology, not having cascading switches, having 100MB switches not 10MB ones mixed in with 100MB switches, cabling and then there is the server side, Read Write of the Hard drives, array controllers, hard drive speed and so on. One thing I noticed is that increasing the MYSQL memory program has improved speed, I think ours is on 1024MB (4GB of memory on server) we have a ML350 G3 that is beefed up.

Cheers
Hubba

Hubba writes...

HelpDesk has improved

I'm now looking after a 2Clix setup. The first time I called the help desk it was because MySQL was crashing with an error.

Simon Metcher asked me to reboot although I'd already told him we had. We did it again. MySQL still wasn't up. His words astounded me, he said "Normally you just have to keep rebooting until it works." I was blown away. And I see from this forum he is the Help Desk manager!!

He agreed to remotely login and take a look. We waited for him but heard nothing. I called back and found he'd gone off to lunch. Now, I can appreciate people have to eat but we were waiting for him AND he knew 2Clix was down. We couldn't do any financial work whatsoever.

I found it an extremely disappointing experience, and this is very recent.

the way you set up your LAN

This is a cop-out. I've heard lots of small dodgy software companies try to blame their program's problems on things like not using managed switches etc. Sure, server hardware does have an element to play but I have memories of SapphireOne trying to insist that the reason their program garbled tax file numbers HAD to be because of some problem with network equipment on our side. Never mind the fact no other program suffered, and never mind the fact the problem was consistent and repeatable. Eventually they conceded they were encrypting tax file numbers repeatedly - so, in effect were encrypting an encrypted number and this broke things. But I digress, this is not about Sapphire One but 2Clix, just when I hear "oh, it MUST be because of your network" it just brings back bad memories of really bad software.

There's other things about 2Clix which bug me. You can find the same field on different screens but with different values! I asked 2Clix about this; they told me one of the screens I was looking at was known to be inaccurate and was to be fixed. Yet, does this mean it did work once and was broken along the line? Or it never worked? And if they know one screen to be inaccurate, how many others do they know to be inaccurate? It doesn't give confidence about the reliability of the program's outputs, to my mind.

And I'm only extremely new to 2Clix. The people who I'm supporting reported many grievances with it. I took the view it is there, the solution is to make it work and find ways to resolve all the issues - but neither the 2Clix help desk or the software itself are making it easy.

Regarding Network, this is the experience I have come across at our work, I have another server IBM eSeries, PIII processor and 1GB of memory which is our test server, 2Clix is installed on this (MYSQL etc) and this runs alot slower compared to our main server, when logged on to the server or on a Desktop. Just putting across my thoughts on this to help out others or give ideas.

Helpdesk improved, you should have been around 12 to 18months ago! (Before Simon) You would have a new person almost every month, then you would have to go over your business ways and set up with them etc.... The issue you had I agree was not professional, hence the comment they need to be more professional but they have improved compared to back then. Another issue with the Helpdesk is that they do not return calls in a timely manner, you could wait up to 2 days to have a call back, most of the time as you mentioned you end up calling them back. They need to log jobs and email them to the client with a follow up times which are adhered to.

Report showing different values, that is one of our issues with 2Clix as well, we have spoken to them about this and they have meant to fixed it. One of ours was in Statements in the Customer file, this would show different value to the Statement report in Reports. Also values would change in Balance Sheet after the amounts were finalised, in one case we refreshed data 6 times and eventually the Balance report spat out the correct figure, we drilled down on it before and could see the value that it should be but took that many attempts to get it to produce the correct amount in the report.

Cheers
Hubba

Hubba writes...

need to be more professional

they do not return calls in a timely manner

that is one of our issues with 2Clix as well

they have meant to fixed it

took that many attempts to get it to produce the correct amount

So, in essence, despite originally speaking in 2Clix's favour you are agreeing with every other person who questions the lack of quality of this product and organisation.

You know, I came to a pre-existing 2Clix installation and despite learning the company had many grievances with the product I took the view that I should speak with the vendor and tackle each issue one at a time and turn things around so the people were happy. It is exasperating that a) the product is bad, and b) the help-desk are working against me.

2Clix to madness! :>

I am not sticking up for 2Clix they can do that themselves if they want, just giving our experience with the product and what has happen to us. I still do not mind the program, but maybe 2 years of it has caused the above comment! :>

Cheers
Hubba

.

Well, I may perhaps need to eat some humble pie.

2Clix clearly take the forum comments here to heart. Simon Metcher called me to ask for a list of issues so he could work on resolving them. I sent an initial list of my most pressing concerns.

Simon asked for a copy of our data to be sent to him. To my absolute horror I found we had no backups for 10 days (well, there is the nightly backup, but none of the 2Clix-generated zip-file backups, which it is our practice to make a couple of times during our payroll and invoicing stages.)

I made a copy of the MySQL data directory and sent a message to Simon expressing my dilemma. I figured I'd work on it over the weekend. I was surprised to get a call back from Simon offering to work on it there and then, already past 5pm. He remotely connected and we traded some e-mails and phone calls and he's still working on it now and has committed to fixing this over the weekend.

I cannot think of any possible thing that changed in our environment that may have caused this problem and it was certainly unexpected that the backups were not completing. Until I looked tonight we had no idea this failure had happened.

On the one hand I feel badly Simon is working on this at such rotten hours but on the other I am truly humbled and relieved by his committment to working on what is really a terrible situation for us.

So, I suppose there is a lesson here, that the 2Clix support desk do have the customer's interests in mind and are willing to work to turn around grievances.

Wow - interesting to see that there is so much vocal input on this forum.

We gave a deposit of $4400 to 2Clix for a price guarantee, based on the fact that we were not ready to buy yet, and that the deposit would be refundable if we changed our mind for whatever reason.

Well, after talking to some of the responders in whirlpool forums here we did change our mind and have still not seen our deposit back, which 2Clix are refusing to return to us.

We experience has been so far that you cannot trust what they say and you can kiss any deposit goodbye. Ours has been over 2 years ago now, dealing with Steven @ 2clix.

Good luck ...

Dear Everybody,

Thank you 'Gumby' for your feedback, we really are only interested in solving any problems that you have. I just hope that you were able to inspire some more people jump on the bandwagon and let go of old angst so that we can all move forwards.

To address "What am i doing indoors" post - I would have assumed that if this was a legitimate claim and this was your first post on this thread than you would have seen my comments asking to be contacted about any issues.

To date I have not heard anything.

Once again please let me re-iterate that our support desk is open 8:30am - 5:30pm Monday-Friday for phone calls - we are contactable via email as well.

(07) 55758588
support@2clix.com.au

Kindest Regards,

Simon Metcher

I have left messages for several people on your whims - please take a look. Thanks

Well, my data is back and backups are backing up so I'm certainly grateful to Simon and his team for their work.

I'm not a shy as most.

John White is my name and I am the CEO of a Melbourne based company who is greatly concerned at the lack of performance associated with certain accounting packages. To make some sence of it I have established an action group who are wishing to share information on what works and what does not! So far I have had conversations with many disgruntled companies who feel they have been "oversold and under delivered " on the capabilities of 2clix.

If you are such a company it is in your interest to contact me, and from what I can tell 99% of people posting on this site have significant issues: I can be contacted on 03 95624344.

Please be aware that I am not interested in slanderous comments about individuals, I am only interested in knowing the facts in relation to your experiences with this accounting package. The intent is to gather information and make representation to relevant authorities to undertake investigations into the activities of the provider.

If you are a company which has experienced difficulty within the nominated accounting / business package, I would be gald to hear from you.

John White again.

I wanted to say thank you to all who called me yesterday. It is clear; the growing number of extremely concerned people who are getting less than ideal outcomes with 2clix continues to emerge.

Interestingly, the first phone call was from 2clix wanting to do everything possible to understand why people are so outraged. Gives concern, and probably confirms the problems associated with the product, in so musch as they monitor this site with vigour in an attempt to shortcircuit individuals "telling it the way it is".

Please call me if you wish to contribute to the list of issues we have identified. My number again - 03 95624344.

jdubya writes...

in so musch as they monitor this site with vigour in an attempt to shortcircuit individuals "telling it the way it is".

anyone else having flashbacks to timmy from wild here.

This is from another employee at work:

I have been working with 2Clix for more than 2 years “on and off”. I am not a qualified software technician, I know nothing about programming but what I do know is that 2Clix is unstable and has too many loopholes within the accounting function. It cannot be trusted to do all that is required behind the scenes and allows too many errors to go through ‘undetected’ ie after two years we have just realized that in the latest issue the Trial Balance does not even balance…. A Basic fundamental of an accounting package. Their response to this is, and I quote “Most customers don’t even check this”. This is so right because most customer would not even believe an accounting package would be able to be sold on the market without this basic function!

2Clix may have improved their helpdesk but that is not the issue …. We don’t need support…… I think over the years we know more about 2Clix than they do…. What we need is fixes. When one problem is solved another one raises its ugly head and what is more concerning they don’t even know half of these problems exist until you point it out to them. What concerns me even more is that there are Companies out there using this package and don’t even realize that the accounts they are producing could well be inaccurate. No doubt when auditing comes around they may have a nasty shock!

In conclusion this product should not even have made available on the market without at least another 2 years testing and tweeking! as the product definitely is not up to the standard they claim. If you want to save yourselves a lot of money and a lot of stress keep well away from this product.

Well it looks like 2clix could be no more!!! Have you seen their new site (and lo and behold their new product)!!!! PLATINUM ONE - Well actually its the same product - why don't you compare the Home pages with 2clix site. It look like they could be jumping ship and getting rid of the problems that go along with 2clix. The new product is registered and ready to go!!! You have to hand it to them they are definitely one step ahead of the game. No doubt there will be a substantial fee to move over from 2clix to Platinum one. It makes you wonder how they get away with it!

Judas001 writes...

It makes you wonder how they get away with it!

It makes me wonder how you can make so many assumptions in the one breath :P

Due to the poor quality of support from 2Clix and the very real and in some cases desperate need for 2Clix customers to carry on business, despite the apathy of 2Clix. We have set up a website and dedicated forums to help manage this issue.

www.2clixhelp.com

These forums are intended for all 2Clix customers, potential customers and ex customers to share their experiences about life before, during and increasingly, after 2Clix.

As 2Clix are changing their name to Platinum One, we have also taken the liberty to register

www.p1help.com

Which points to the same website and forums.

We have worked out ways to access the information stored in the 2Clix mysql database without having to use 2Clix. We know there are a number of ex 2Clix customers who need this information so they can move onto other systems.

We are happy to provide advice where it can be of benefit to these people so they can get on with the business of running their business.

We invite all past, present and future??? users of 2clix to use these forums, hopefully together we can build a knowledge base that we can all benefit from.

Lord knows 2Clix can't.

Kind Regards
The 2clixhelp.com team

This is going to be pretty brutal...

My name is Stephen Tritton and I am the National Sales Manager of 2Clix Australia. My contact details are 07 55758588 and 0405533570. Alternatively stephen@2Clix.com.au

To John White -
thank you for being man enough to post your contact details and name in this thread. I understand that we have contacted you and offered to resolve any issues you have but you have declined that help.

To Gumby -
thank you also for your frank admissions. I understand Simon has worked out who you are and contacted you and resolved all issues.

To all the other gutless wonders on this thread who hide behind aliases and refuse to contact any of us to resolve your issues -
Put up or Shut up! If you sincerely need your issues solved, contact us with them and we will solve them. If you don't own up to who you are or contact us directly from this time, we can only (and everyone else reading this thread) assume that you have no other motivation than to have your 5 seconds of fame on a soapbox with questionable motivations.

2Clix, unlike other software companies, is not perfect. We stuff up more than we would like to. If you are a user of 2Clix and read the update notes, you will see where we own up to all issues identified to us and resolve them accordingly. We are also slowing down the number of updates we are releasing per year. This will be on a 6 monthly basis. This will (hopefully) also allow us to beat to death any new features added to 2Clix for our clients so the bugs will be minimal. You may notive I said minimal as there is no bug-free software in the whole world unfortunately.

Our motivations remain the same....

1) Build the best ERP/MRP system available
2) Give customers a tool to improve their business systems
3) Implement and train customers on the best use of 2Clix to benefit them.
4) Support customers to the best of our abilities.
5) Improve all aspects of our business on a day to day basis.

We sometimes (often) fail in these things but strive daily to fix any failures and with your help can resolve any issues.

Looking forward to your contact.

Stephen Tritton
Sales Manager
2Clix Australia Pty Ltd

Mr Tritton.

John White

I note your reference to your offer to assist with issues was declined - I suggest you re read the request we had. The request was simple - send a project manager to our site so we can oversee their activities. Quite frankly, we do not trust 2Clix to fix the issues as the track record speaks for itself.

Your admission of faults in the software is somewhat refreshing as it is in contrast to the majority of 2Clix personnel who continually blame YOUR CUSTOMERS as being at fault. You may understand why many of YOUR CUSTOMERS are upset (being the sales manager), when we have all spent significant amounts of money with you for goods and services which are supposedly "world class" yet they fail to deliver or meet the glitz and glamour of the sales presentation. YOUR CUSTOMERS are being treated like guinea pigs - think about it - we spend a significant amount of money, have a product that certainly is faulty (you admit that), take months to have faults fixed, and often charged extra money to develop additional programming to meet the needs of the individual company which is the so called way to fix the fault.

Nice business if you can get it, which you have! Oversell the product, let YOUR CUSTOMERS find the faults, take months to fix the faults, charge YOUR CUSTOMERS to fix faults and then have the audacity to say "gee whiz aren't we good".

The people who have contacted me are of similar mind on this issue - we are all businesses which must operate in the market place - in my case 18 months down the track we still have a broken product, we still have a supplier who fails to understand the needs of business and we have individuals in that supplier who believe it is our fault - we are the CUSTOMER, we have PAID you significant amounts of money, WE are angry and WE have had enough.

This forum is only one avenue of expressing displeasure - there are many others and they are being exercised by many. Quite frankly I don't enjoy this forum one bit; however, if it is a means of hearing from others about the issues then let it be so - to date I have a very significant number of YOUR CUSTOMERS calling expressing all sorts of opinions on the product.

Your five point motivation gives little comfort:

Rhetorically,

1. YOUR CUSTOMERS are funding the building of the product - not improvements, you are still trying to fix it!
2. YOUR CUSTOMERS have a poor tool to run their businesses - it's got faults.
3. Training how to fix faults is not training, that's called crisis management.
4. Support - YOUR CUSTOMERS are getting more support by talking to each other.
5. Improving business on a day to day basis - 2Clix may consider itself a day to day proposition - YOUR CUSTOMERS consider themselves as longterm finiancially viable entities delivering goods and services to their customers. Using faulty product just does not cut it.

As a final note, any business that hides behind the skirt of a so called Global claim "there is no bug free software in the whole wide world" shows contempt for its own product and gives it permission to be faulty - now that's not a good thing. If we YOUR CUSTOMERS delivered faulty products and services to our customers we would not survive - and as I understand it faulty product does not go out the door in the first place.

2Clix,

care to comment on the suggestion that "Platinum One" is a rebadged (or replacement) 2Clix product? The two websites describe their respective products identically. Same testimonials even.

If they aren't the same product, then there may be an issue with misleading and deceptive conduct by using the same testimonials.

2Clix Sales writes...

resolved all issues

No. Simon did resolve an issue where DBManager hung and our backups were not performing. That has now been fixed.

However, we are still waiting for a resolution on the discrepancy between qty values in different screens, as well as a bug fix for the division by zero error in payslip reprinting, as well as a big list of other items I sent to Simon on Monday 27th Aug 11:01pm titled "FW: 2Clix Challenges".

Note, I'm not raising those issues here, I just would hope 2Clix have not considered "all" issues resolved when only one has been resolved.

Thanks.

EDIT: And, some of my other issues I was just told "could not be done". For instance, I was flat out told 2Clix had no ad-hoc reporting facilities and we were not permitted to have read-only ODBC access to the database. I was also told there was no date yet for when 2Clix would run on Windows Vista. I was also told there was no date when 2Clix would guarantee Windows Server 2003 support (the recommendation was given to me to run 2Clix services on Windows XP instead.) - these are not "resolutions" but rather the issue was closed with simply the answer "it is not possible" / "we have no date for that". Again, do note I'm not raising these issues here - do not interpret this posting as aggressive or malicious in any way whatsoever. My point is simply that it is not accurate or just to say "all" my issues have been resolved when one has been resolved, others denied and the rest unanswered.

Ralph – In response

You beat us to it!

We are pleased to announce a partnership with an overseas company and the conversion of Platinum One to Australian standards and accounting. This partnership started 6 months ago and was warmly received by both parties.

Platinum One is Vista complient and uses the latest MySQL Version 5.

It is not yet ready for release and will not be released until fully developed and tested. It will have a similar look to 2Clix to ensure that any of our clients that choose to take up the offer of a free upgrade to Platinum One will have a near-seamless changeover.

I stress that Platinum One will be provided to our clients at no charge for the software and will not be released until tested and ready.

Both 2Clix and Platinum One will exist side by side in the marketplace and you will have a choice as to which program you use. Platinum One will have all of the existing features that 2Clix has. If you wish to keep using 2Clix, we invite you to do so.

I apologise for the oversight on the P1 website in relation to the testimonials. Our contracted web developers were given the brief to copy the 2Clix site to start with and they took that literally. We have instructed them to remove the testimonials and you will see that effected in the next few days.

Please keep an eye on our website www.p1software.com for further news about this exciting release and, I must admit, it has been a shame that our thunder has been stolen, but I look forward to telling you more in the coming months.

Stephen Tritton

John,

Thanks you for your frankness. I will call you tomorrow.

Stephen

Gumby,

I'm told Simon is sick this week and he knows who you are. I apologise that your issues weren't all addressed. Could you please email me offline and give me your contact details just in case Simon is sick Friday and I will call you.

Stephen

Robert,

Thanks you for your post and your foresight in setting up the 2Clix and Platinum One help sites and forums. We should have done it years ago!

I understand you have done this for your own commercial reasons but never begrudge people making money from 2Clix.

I would like to encourage all 2Clix users to use this site help each other. We will also get involved in it and endeavour to help as well. The combined experiences and knowledge of our clients should add up to a formidable forum to help everyone with our product.

Robert, if you can post the links again for everyone to see it would be appreciated.

Stephen

Hi Everyone,

Obviously my earlier first post had the desired response!

Thank you to those of you who have emailed me directly and I look forward to visiting your businesses and solving your issues.

To those that are unwilling to contact me directly - what are you trying to achieve?

As I explained to those of you who took exception to the fact I used the term "gutless wonders" to describe what you called our "clients" - That is the problem. How do I know they are clients of ours and not opportunistic competitors seeking an easy way of bad-mouthing a company that has taken business and market share away from them?

I do recognise that those of you that visit the help sites mentioned above will be prospected to move to other software. That is commercialism and your decision in the end. Everyone moved away from other software to install 2Clix. We would like to avoid that change as much as possible of course so please let me know personally how we can help and we will.

Stephen

Dear 2Clix sales,

The only commercial purpose for the www.2clixhelp.com forums is to try and garner some form of return for your customers who have made a considerable investment in your product.

My client has invested a considerable amount of time and money in 2Clix only to find that it falls far short of what has been promised in terms of features and especially reliability. We are in regular contact with technical support, however to date not once have we received information from them that could be considered useful or helpful. On some days we feel truly sorry for the staff who man the 2Clix support lines.

If 2Clix can eventually deliver what has been promised and at the very least fix the more annoying and in some cases completely unacceptable bugs that should not be present in any product (and to this date I have never seen bugs of this magnitude in any product anywhere, from any industry), I will alter the tone of the front page of the site so that it can be a happy place for both 2Clix tech support and 2Clix users.

If there is one thing that forms the core of the success of a company, it is the accounting software. If the accounting software fails the company, then the risks the investors take in the company are increased and any chances of failure are magnified. Companies like 2Clix must understand that they carry a considerable responsibility on their shoulders, if they do not take the security of their customers business seriously then those customers will turn on them in a bad way. If they sincerely work towards the growth of their customers business, everybody benefits.

Robert

Mr. Tritton.

John White

I look forward to your call.

You have advised: "we are pleased to announce a partnership with an overseas company" for the release of Platinum One.

Please advise this forum who is the overseas company, what is the structure of that company and who are the directors of that company?

Should you wish not to supply this information please provide the companies full trading name, which is a public record, so individuals can undertake their own searches. Quite frankly it would be something you should be pleased to do if the Platinum One partnership is with a fantastic company as suggested - or is there more to it?

This way YOUR CUSTOMERS can evaluate the history and the performance of the so called different product.

Robert,

Thanks for your reply. I appreciate it. I have no problem with the tone of your landing page as it is pretty spot on.

We are looking forward to being part of your forum in helping everyone get the best from our software.

Could you please get your client to contact me directly so I may organise resolution to any and all problems if I can.

Kind regards,

Stephen

John,

Thank you once again for your post.

As you are using a public forum here, I would like to publicly question your motivations though.

2Clix has on numerous occasions offered you support and even free additions to resolve any issues you may have. You have refused all offers of help.

When one of our support staff asked you the question " What can we do to get you happy?" Allegedly the response was "nothing".

Happy to resolve any client's issues if they are willing to allow us.

I will extend the offer of help one more time to you but....

What are you trying to achieve John and what are your true motivations?

Looking forward to your reply. I will call you in a couple fo hours.

Stephen

Hi Everyone,

A follow up on John White.

We have just had a chat on the phone and John was happy for 2Clix to come to the table to discuss what the future has to hold.

I told him everything I know about Platinum One, that it involves a software investment company out of Vanuatu and that a partnership had been formed between them and us with a trading name of Platinum One Pty Ltd here in Australia where we are licensed to convert the software to Australian standards.

I also know that the software is planned to be launched in 2-3 months.

I know there has been significant investment with both time and money in it.

I know many of our clients are waiting patiently to see it.

John and I are discussing moving foward some more this coming Monday.

Let's see what we can achieve together.

Thanks John.

Stephen

Mr Tritton,

unfortunatley there is not enough space on this web site to list the issues which we have presented to 2Clix over the last 18 months. As a business man, and I would have thought you would understand it, I believe I am entitled to have a purchased product functioning as it ought to, be fit for the purpose intended and operational from the moment of purchase.

The offer of support from 2clix underlines the problem - if there were no problems, we would not need your assistance? Business systems are easy to operate; however, they must be operational in the first place - 2Clix is not, and has not been operational over the last 18 months, the entire time we have been enduring the promises and non performance of 2Clix. Your records will show - we want a system that works and as your support people cannot provide that why would you continue to beat your head against a rock?

You question my motivation - let me make it very clear what my motivation is.

We entered into an agreement (as did many of your disgruntled customers) to by a business management program thatt would guide our / their businesses into the next ten years of growth. We did believe 2Clix would do this based on the hype and marketing glitz which clearly gave confidence and assisted in the decision to proceed. Hence my motivation should be fairly obvious to you - we want a business sytem that works and meets the expectation and presented at the time of purchase (I assure you I have over 20 emails from YOUR CUSTOMERS who have all said exactly the same thing - "when 2Clix people were questioned at the sell in could it do a specific taks - the answer was always yes"!

You said to me not more than 15 minutes ago - you could not warrant the product to be free of faults - that's a problem, a great big one!

We have spent excessive amounts of money trying to make 2Clix work and it fails in many areas which are basic to the success of a business. And as you have said yourself 2clix is a faulty.

John White

A partnership with a company in a tax Haven? Its certainly something the ATO and ASIC look at very seriously and can involve criminal charges. I sincerely hope its being done for legitimate reasons.

Hold the fort Luka11!

You obviously didn't read what I posted earlier well enough. I posted...

"I told him everything I know about Platinum One, that it involves a software investment company out of Vanuatu and that a partnership had been formed between them and us with a trading name of Platinum One Pty Ltd here in Australia where we are licensed to convert the software to Australian standards."

The investors are based in the UK and Canada and for their own purposes and reasons unknown to us have chosen a Vanuatu based vehicle to make the investment.

Before you ask, a confidentiality agreement is in place.

Stephen

Does this mean Platinum One is not an upgrade or enhanced version of 2Clix but is actually an entirely separate product, with an entirely separate codebase?

From: John White

To all those companies who have been in contact with me over the last few months.

There have been developments at 2clix today. I have had it confirmed, by 2clix directly, the retrenchment of 10 employees took place today.

Whilst speculation will run rife regarding this, I assume the company will issue some form of statement to "spin" the decision.

For my part it raises a number of broader and fundemental questions.

1. What is the true status of the company financially?
2. Why have they chosen this point in time to terminate people?
3. What entitlements and what amount of cash is required to meet statutory requirements?
4. What effect will the terminations have on us, angry customers? We can't get much done now, so how is it going to get better with 10 people less?

I don't think I need to speculate any further - I think everyone gets the picture.

Whilst it's none of my business what they do, I'm not so sure we aren't seeing something bigger underway - I might be wrong; however, there appears to be something not quite right.

This email is intended to share information with the "action group" and like minded companies who have major investments in this product.

This is not about a bantering session with 2clix people - that will come later face to face.

Wow, who were the people who were terminated? Any of the names I know - Jo, Lauren (who never responds to e-mail anyway), Simon, Richard, Philip, Rod?

jdubya writes...

You said to me not more than 15 minutes ago - you could not warrant the product to be free of faults - that's a problem, a great big one!

John (jdubya),

No software is free from faults. Especially software as complex as 2Clix.

No, I don't work for 2Clix. I never have. I don't have shares. I don't use 2Clix, never have. I have no family, friend or anyone I know who work for 2Clix or have any sort of vested interest in 2Clix.

I'm a software developer - for a competitor of 2Clix. No matter how much effort developers put into releasing a bug-free product, there will always be bugs.

I know nothing about 2Clix. I know about developing commerical ERP solutions - packaged solutions. It's tough, and nobody but a developer could really appreciate this.

How's this for an example : Today, I learnt a facet of the ERP software I work on has a bug introduced because of a Windows update - critical patch to the MSXML Parser - causes our import of XML documents to fail, but only when the XML document has a comment in it. Turns out Microsofts XML Parser had changed it's behaviour, which causes an error in our parsing of the document. The change is undocumented and without warning.

Yet, what do our customers see ? Our software has a bug. To be fair, it's a rare occasion that Microsoft OS Updates cause us greif, but it illustrates my point : Software is complex, and often the cause is beyond the control of the developer.

I think some of the contributors here need to take a chill-pill, and work out a productive strategy for solving their problems -like talking to 2Clix.