Go to navigation

ACA launches broadband over power line website

Martin Sinclair, 21 Jan 2005

The Australian Communication Authority today released a new information website for broadband over power line (BPL) technology.

BPL technology promises to provide broadband speeds of over 10Mbps by utilising existing power line infrastructure.

The site lists trials currently underway as well as guidelines for providers looking to roll out BPL in the future. Four power companies are currently conducting trials including Aurora Energy in Tasmania, Energy Australia in Newcastle and two regional providers in NSW.

The ACA is looking into the regulatory issues associated with the new technology and is opening discussions with interested parties. Regulation will ensure that frequencies used by BPL do not interfere with other radio services.

ACA Chairman Bob Horton noted the challenge of forming regulations that "do not unnecessarily inhibit the adoption of BPL technology but at the same time protect radio communications services from harmful interference."

He also believes that Australia is "keeping pace" with other countries including Europe and the United States who are also in the process of developing the necessary regulations.

Links:

Overflow mode: Showing the most recent replies only (past 6770 days). [Show all]

Show posts in the last

HAHA Intervene (user #28822)
Edgy.B. (user #9537)
Ezzza (user #17184)
Sweet... for everyone else.. User 14727 (user #14727)
Ezzza (user #17184)
prototype (user #65859)
2005-Jan-22, 10:49 am (6770 days ago)
HEh
And Look theres TASSIE YAY, We're allways the dead last for everything like this, Theres no Cable lines at all in tas for public use........

About time tassie and reganil areas get new tech first :D Lets just hope there not idiots with pricing and Data limits,......
Finger (user #11686)
2005-Jan-22, 7:07 pm (6770 days ago)
Energex can't even run a power grid...
Haha Qld won't get it cause energex can't even run a reliable power grid as it is. Imagine if our broadband came from energex, it would have more down time than a $2 hooker.
Aramedias (user #9198)
2005-Jan-23, 10:10 am (6769 days ago)
Right.

Thats why you can get Optus and Telstra cable in Brisbane, and Telstra Cable in most other QLD cities as well.

If you want faster speeds, move to a better city ;p
ABOUT TIME IT'S HAPPENING!!!!! Versus! (user #52173)
SirRag (user #6013)
Who Cares! Muzzled Sheep (user #44465)
Manny Calavera (user #8101)
VK3CKK (user #32192)
2005-Jan-22, 9:35 am (6770 days ago)
reply to Grug
actually it is a little more complicated than that. BPL must prove that it does not produce any Interference to the established radiocommunications services see the ACA .pdf file for further information.

internet.aca.gov.au/acai...line%20final.pdf
Ezzza (user #17184)
Regulatory Issues only VK3CKK (user #32192)
some solutions! SirRag (user #6013)
colteh! (user #48705)
it is possible.. SirRag (user #6013)
zx80 (user #54047)
2005-Jan-24, 4:08 pm (6768 days ago)
"We use fiber to bring high speed into neighborhoods, then take it off a node and inject it into the high-voltage line. Then we use a repeater every 500 feet on utility poles, so we only need to have enough power to go 500 feet," he explained.

The cost of these repeaters and fibers may make this idea too expensive to implement large scale. Then again it would probably be cheaper than a cable network. But it would still require in the billions to implement in the city. We might be some time away from these dollars being spent even if it is approved by the ACA
Sounds good NuttA (user #42940)
Alrighty thennn .. RdRs (user #30250)
high uploads please bboy_bojo (user #19953)
Niggles (user #30712)
2005-Jan-22, 5:05 pm (6770 days ago)
5mbit+ sym
You can already get 5mbit+ and you already can pay a lot for it. Why are you waiting?

Ring your friendly Telstra or Optus account manager.
HSV Guy (user #12945)
Tallican (user #41895)
Yeah right!!! maze_99 (user #27191)
it will happen! SirRag (user #6013)
VK3CKK (user #32192)
2005-Jan-22, 9:24 am (6770 days ago)
comply with I T U regulations
to VK5VKA. even the free trade agreement must comply to current ITU regulations.In case anyone wants to know the International Telecommunications Union is in Geneva Switzerland.

From VK3CKK himself.
Packeteer (user #53957)
2005-Jan-26, 2:52 pm (6766 days ago)
Re: It will happen
There is a catch to that reasoning;

The FTA (Free Trade Agreement) between the USA and Australia is likely to be or already law by the time you read this. Here is a section from the telecommunications chapter of the agreement. If you read it carefully, you could drive a road train (ie truck) through it. Here comes BPL!!!!!

There is as overiding Treaty which cannot be overidden (although some will try)by the FTA,it is the ITU treaty on radio interference.
Even the FTA cannot bypass safety and EMI issues. In any case the technology is European not US.
haha Chad Leverington (user #1292)
eat me (user #4082)
2005-Jan-22, 12:54 pm (6770 days ago)
other countries run, john howard only power walks. We won't be leading any race as long as he's there.
vanja-b (user #38327)
AfroTrance (user #11932)
telstra.. MrWhippy (user #53575)
Fast, faster, fastest... Grapeshot (user #26734)
VK3CKK (user #32192)
2005-Jan-22, 10:27 am (6770 days ago)
Ref. the Radiocommunications Act[primary legleslation] of 1992 Act 174 of 1992 as amended.with amendment 14 of April 2004 or a current copy of the Radiocommunications Act as legleslated The Australian Communications Authority Act of 1997 The trials will not be expedited some of them are to ensure that BPL will not cause interferrence to existing Radiocommunications Services including Television and Radio Stations.You should be able to get a .pdf copy of these acts at www.aca.gov.au
Lafiel (user #1287)
2005-Jan-22, 3:24 pm (6770 days ago)
HIGH speed, LOW cost
Why do you think it will be high speed, low cost? Like all new technologies it will be expensive, and remember the speed is shared, so do not expect any faster than ADSL today.

Australia is a dinosaur on ADSL
Not really, why do you claim that?

it is time to "get moving" on powerline BB.
Except it is not really moving in any country...
Nuke The Whales (user #26620)
2005-Jan-22, 4:58 pm (6770 days ago)
I think he meant broadband is a dino in australia. And he was thinking this because of the countries that allreaddy have gigabit unlimeted at a reasonable price.

And doesn't some parts of south africa have bpl allreaddy?
Captain Sensible (user #2579)
2005-Jan-28, 2:12 pm (6764 days ago)
...and Scotland
Sting1 (user #52246)
2005-Jan-22, 2:00 pm (6770 days ago)
No longer at Telstra's mercy, but when ?
My ADSL has been horrible since ages, but Telstra says there is Major repairs needed to the line, when, they don't say.
I am sure there are quite a few people like me, its frustrating, paying like $90 a month for a 1500/256 connection, then getting a crap connection. Not only that, but to prove to Telstra, that you have a problem, is a problem by itself.
They expect us to get to a higher technical level (If not, they say, there is no problem so what you complaining about ?), understand the problem, then tell them what it is, then get them to agree "that there is a problem".
Great, acheived stage 1, after that they say they need major repairs, but when they can do the repairs, NO IDEA.
The new BPL seems good, but is it:
1) When do we actually get it, 2 mths, 6 mths or is it indefinate ?
2) How is it for Gaming ? (eg. I asked a wireless tech, if 1500/256 was suitable for gaming, he said NO. (So speed is not the only factor)

There has to be a feasible alternative to Telstra, its uncivilised, how they deal with problems, basically 0 care factor.
NuttA (user #42940)
2005-Jan-22, 7:06 pm (6770 days ago)
From past info I have read on BPL its apprently NOT good for games. Which could be a big drawback for many users.
Sting1 (user #52246)
2005-Jan-23, 12:21 am (6769 days ago)
JUST MY LUCK
bbuser (user #15336)
2005-Jan-25, 2:40 am (6767 days ago)
BPL for Games and VoIP
I read that to deal with interference from 240V appliances, BPL has to use some fairly advanced error-correcting codes.

These error-correcting codes introduce delays which impair "ping" times for gamers, and causes delays for VoIP users.

This is not so noticeable for activities such as web browsing, file download or Instant Messenger.
Giant (user #4183)
2005-Jan-22, 4:16 pm (6770 days ago)
VOIP
I hope BPL will support VOIP. You know where I am going with this one.
Cheers
Giant
Ionic Maximus Feldspar (user #3798)
2005-Jan-22, 10:01 pm (6770 days ago)
I hope BPL will support VOIP. You know where I am going with this one.

It's an IP connection, provided there are no firewalls upstream, of course it will.
the web (user #24242)
2005-Jan-23, 10:22 am (6769 days ago)
Yep - this should send a shiver up Tel$ra's spine (I bet they are trying to find a way to stop BOP right now).

BUT - what about competition? Will Energex say operate a virtual monopoly whereby if you want BOP you only have one choice of ISP??
NuttA (user #42940)
2005-Jan-23, 10:45 am (6769 days ago)
BUT - what about competition? Will Energex say operate a virtual monopoly whereby if you want BOP you only have one choice of ISP??

Good point, and yes I think they will, I dont think there is any legal requirnment for them to open up their network, like telstra do with their copper.

But this is a point someone needs to clarify.
Tolmartyr (user #51819)
2005-Jan-23, 11:21 am (6769 days ago)
And what is to stop Telstra buying into the electricity grid, certainly not a lack of $$$!
Power Surge (user #55365)
2005-Jan-23, 2:26 pm (6769 days ago)
Broadband over power line
With broadband over powerline you'd have to be more careful when messing around this your connection...

;)
TuneIntoCh0 (user #27906)
2005-Jan-23, 6:49 pm (6769 days ago)
Most if not all power companies involved with BPL have expressed they don't want to offer it as a retail service, they'd prefer to resell the service to ISP's. However, I believe it is more than likely any given power company will try and partner with 1 ISP - if they did that, the ISP would be more inclined to pay a higher premium for using their BPL network than if 100 other ISPs were competing.

However, since BPL will only ever be in areas which already have broadband, they can't sit back and charge through the roof, it will have to compete with ADSL. I say this because BPL deployment isn't cheap, and it generally can only service areas very close to power substations without further expenses in the way of repeaters.

If a BPL network ever actually hits commerical status, i'd be very surprised, interference appears to be simply unavoidable. The problem is, these power companies flat out avoid the topic of interference when it comes to their trials, all you ever hear is "great success". Yeah, i'm sure from a data point of view it was, but how about from an interference point of view? I've already heard a few independant reports on recent trials here in NSW, and the resulting interference was ugly.
narkotix (user #10062)
2005-Jan-23, 7:42 pm (6769 days ago)
there goes amateur radio :-/

www.arrl.org/tis/info/HTML/plc
VK3CKK (user #32192)
2005-Jan-23, 10:41 pm (6769 days ago)
DON't forget the RSGB or the WIA
www.abc.net.au/news/news...501/s1281207.htm

also some more information here about BPL
www.wia.org.au
frodobaggins2 (user #72190)
2005-Jan-24, 12:51 am (6768 days ago)
BPL Pitfalls - Dont get your hopes up
Folks,

Dont get your hopes up on this technology. It has lots of problems with interference. For example, your cordless telephone is likely to stop working, emergency services in regional areas like Fire and Ambulance who use HF communications could be severely interfered with, CB radio operators on 27MHz could suffer communications 'blackouts' due to the radiated noise from BPL modems, international air traffic control services could even be affected. In fact any HF or Shortwave radio service can be impacted by this stuff, so dont expect the ACA to allow it's use lightly. If it happens at all, it will (hopefully) only be after very extensive trials that demonstrate that any finally adopted standards do not interfere with radio communications. After all, you wouldnt want to live in regional Australia, find your self needing an ambulance, only to discover that your neighbour's BPL modem blocked out the ambo's radio and a member of your family died because they couldnt communicate with base properly now would you?
eman yalpsid (user #4852)
2005-Jan-24, 8:19 am (6768 days ago)
depends..could i choose which member of my family?
activerog (user #34413)
2006-Oct-26, 3:10 am (6128 days ago)
BPL
Colleague of mine says they have BPL in Carrolton, Texas, they seem to have overcome any major issues.
Looking at the two cordless phones here, one's 2.4Ghz, the other 5.8Ghz. If the BPL modems leak, why not shield them in a metal case, or is the cabling emitting EMI ?
necropunk (user #72201)
2005-Jan-24, 8:23 am (6768 days ago)
BPL interview
This is all fantastic sounding stuff but will it ever be available in Australia.
I was listening to a local Radio station the other week and I heard a interview with some wireless guy and he said that they are opposed to it.
I will see if I can track down the site.
necropunk (user #72201)
2005-Jan-24, 9:08 am (6768 days ago)
I knew I saw something on the web about this.
check this out if you want to hear the wireless institute of Aust opinion on BPL.
Follow this link.
www.tektime.com.au/index...emid=219&op=page
VK3CKK (user #32192)
2005-Jan-24, 6:32 pm (6768 days ago)
loom (user #45289)
2005-Jan-24, 9:17 am (6768 days ago)
So what needs to be installed to enable BPL? people in country areas will still be stuffed if some modifications to power lines is required, because it still won't get done.
-Paul- (user #24132)
2005-Jan-24, 11:31 am (6768 days ago)
Probably still out of luck
Unfortunately, this probably still won't help those in the country or low-density areas. Like HFC cable, the BPL business case requires a fair number of (potential) subscribers downstream from the transformer, to justify the cost of the fibre and 'head-end' equipment to get the signal onto the low-voltage side of the local transformer. For those thinking 'yippee, instant turn-on, no waiting for a DSLAM to be installed' - think again. There is still considerable cable haul and equipment to be installed at each HV transformer (and possibly each LV transformer depending on which system might get legs), which in Australia services between 50 - 300 or so people in city/suburbs - so the deployment will be very much like a DSLAM deployment, without getting a dedicated connection to it at the end! Will take many years, even after it gets the nod.
necropunk (user #72201)
2005-Jan-24, 11:42 am (6768 days ago)
Surprised
The way they are talking about this new technology, it just sounds like plug and play and you are on your way.

Thanks for the heads up Paul.
bbuser (user #15336)
2005-Jan-25, 2:29 am (6767 days ago)
BPL Reach Restrictions
Another BPL restriction: Like ADSL, the further the BPL signal goes, the weaker it gets.

A weaker signal means a slower useful data transfer speed.

BPL won't be able to reach quite as far as an ADSL signal (power wiring is less suitable for data transmission than telephone wiring).

The difference is that the ADSL reach is measured from an ADSL-equipped exchange or CMUX (Telstra green box beside the street). The BPL reach is measured from a BPL-equipped power transformer (power company green box beside the street).
Packeteer (user #53957)
2005-Jan-26, 3:23 pm (6766 days ago)
Re: BPL Reach Restrictions
The maximium distance which is typically acheived in the US on overhead lines is approx 200 metres before a repeater is needed.
They probably get a bit farther if there are nill or 1 or 2 taps off the line.
Packeteer (user #53957)
2005-Jan-26, 3:19 pm (6766 days ago)
Re: Probably still out of luck
There is still considerable cable haul and equipment to be installed at each HV transformer (and possibly each LV transformer depending on which system might get legs), which in Australia services between 50 - 300 or so
------------------
In most cases fibre either has already, or is being installed to the substations. This has been done for system control purposes and is not yet fully implemented. The idea of BPL is control your appliances. When demand reaches a limit the idea is turn off your airconditioner or ovens. This is the long term plan. To rent access to an ISP for internet to users is cream on the cake.
Did those of you in NSW hear Bob Carr rule out another power station to cope with further demand ? If you don't build another power station you MUST shed load. BPL is how they are thinking of doing it. They have already in the US started down that track.
The next generation of appliances will either have TCPIP terminals built in or your switch board will be fitted with black boxes.

Whistling in the dark !!!
Lt_P_Mitchell (user #72217)
2005-Jan-24, 11:52 am (6768 days ago)
An Alternative for Infrastructure Supply
This will provide an alternative to relying on Telstra to provide the infrastructure required for DSL connections.

It was only this morning that I was told by Telstra that they do not have to supply DSL infrastructure, but it was their only role to supply a working telephone service.

Maybe with some competiton in the infrastructure market Telstra will be forced to do the job properly.
VK3CKK (user #32192)
2005-Jan-24, 1:49 pm (6768 days ago)
Not against Broadband.
Radiocommunications stations in general are not against Broadband in general nationally and internationally but most national and international radio stations in general are against this type of broadband because they believe at present that it will create more problems than it solves with the electromagnetic spectrum.Just imagine living in a place where all the infrastructure for essential and emergency services had been removed suddenly and could not be replaced even with a substitute. The letter that I have seen in reply from the ACA to the WIA is 2 .pdf pages long.What I have seen of this has more disadvantages than advantages it is a use at own risk technology with an awful spectral display. BPL is also known as PLC and PLT. I note that the Australian Power Supply System is inherently unbalanced in construction and just this fact alone may prevent the supply of BPL in Australia as it is supposed to be supplied over a balanced line instead of an unbalanced line ; is reccomended for use in urbanised areas only.
TuneIntoCh0 (user #27906)
2005-Jan-24, 4:34 pm (6768 days ago)
It is not plug and play, various devices need to be installed on the MV powerlines to bypass any LV transformers, not to mention a repeater needs to be placed about every 0.5 miles. It is clear this is not a technology suited for Australia's regional broadband issue.
Packeteer (user #53957)
2005-Jan-26, 3:31 pm (6766 days ago)
LV Transformers
Not in Australia, our low voltage supply comes from the substations.
It is very seldom you see pole transformers in suburban areas.
So getting around transformers is not the problem here as compared to the US with their 220/110 volt system. They use transformer for evert three or so houses.
hhl (user #7380)
2005-Jan-25, 5:36 pm (6767 days ago)
BPL vs ADSL
Well, what makes ANYONE think it will be economical to install BPL where telstra thinks it can't make money installing ADSL.

The spin doctors like Paul Budde are working overtime. 200Mb/s... universal broadband availability.....

Get real...

Reliable high speed networks can NOT be implemented using noisy , unpredictable power lines. Period

I wonder how many investors they suck in before they realize this technology is a crock.

Cheers
overclocked (user #72349)
2005-Jan-26, 11:39 am (6766 days ago)
I Agree
BPL made it's way to yet another chat show this week in Melbourne on 3WBC 94.1 FM. The mp3 is online www.techtalkradio.com.au/ShowHistory.asp
Packeteer (user #53957)
2005-Jan-26, 3:44 pm (6766 days ago)
Re: BPL & ADSL
Actually its worse than all this; the signals from at least some BPL systems can be heard out to about 1 Km from where it is installed.

Like most things it is a double edged sword. Interference goes both ways. If a transmitter running common power levels comes on within say 300 metres the BPL will usually stop dead. If the transmission lasts a significant time, a time which probab;ly varies with the system, it will shut down and will have to be restarted from boot up. The BPL people have not addressed this problem at all.
They know about it but are hoping to legislate it away.

Some systems have been stopped or slowed from about 1/2 to 3/4 mile away in the US. It is a very significant problem for which the blame will probably be put on the transmitter owner.

Oh well such is life !!
hhl (user #7380)
2005-Jan-27, 7:22 am (6765 days ago)
BPL interference
If BPL interference can be heard strongly several 100 meters away on the ground wave, it is sure to be propagated very much further by ionospheric reflection. A 5 watt shortwave transmitter can easily be heard 1000 km away, and so can BPL!
Packeteer (user #53957)
2005-Jan-27, 3:08 pm (6765 days ago)
Re: BPL Interference
Ah well, its not as simple as that. Horst is not taking into account bandwidth.. The BPL power is spread over many many Mhz whereas the 5 wat transmitter has its power all on on frequency.
The NTIA believes that ionisheric effects will not be noticible until perhaps millions of modems are in use.

However the BBC Research Dept has done calculations on this and they believe if London was substantially wired up with BPL then the noise floor in continental Europe would rise by a few DB.

By extention if you added Birmingham, Manchester and a few other big cities fully wired up with BPL you might then start to see a significant rise in the noise floor.
hhl (user #7380)
2005-Jan-28, 2:29 pm (6764 days ago)
Interference
I agree, but if it makes a racket a few hundred meters away it will do it on the skywave as well, especially if there are lots of sources about.
Another thing that concerens me is the fact that we are currently approaching the sunspot minimum, which makes for very poor HF conditions on many frequency bands. This will substantially mask the problem for a while (maybe 4 or 5 years).

Cheers
Packeteer (user #53957)
2005-Jan-29, 8:47 am (6763 days ago)
Re: Interference
I don't agree Horst, there is big difference between a few hundred metres and the KM up to the ionisphere be refracted and then back down to ground. The attenuation of this path is very high and there is a lot of loss in the refraction. If you vcan't hear it after a few hundred metres you certainly won't hear it after those hundreds of KM.

However, here we are talking about just one system. It has been mathermatically concluded by the BBC research that multiple BPL signals would be additive. I am not mathermatically numerate enough to know whether it would add linearly or to some other function.
Ie, two would not have twice the power of one.

Cheers
hhl (user #7380)
2005-Jan-29, 3:45 pm (6763 days ago)
Interference
Well, I stand to be corrected, but I do know for a fact that I can produce an S8 signal in Europe with about 5 watts of RF (from Australia)on 14 Mhz, given the right conditions. I have had perfect 2 way communications on less than 1 watt on occasions over the same path.
Another example, on 7Mhz I can just be heard and be barely readable on the ground wave using 5 watts 5 km away and yet my signal is over S9 and "booming in" 1000km away!

Cheers
hicksynet (user #144414)
2006-Nov-11, 8:47 am (6112 days ago)
should be greatful
hi i have dial up connect at 28.8 kbs and drop out about 5 times every 2 hours im on for, we have seen telstra about it and they just palmed us off (broadband is not available in your area and the accual lines are to old, so a simple upgrade to adsl cannot be done). If this new bpl would alow me to have broadband for the same price count me in as a customer
 
 
 
 
Reply to this article